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Post by stryker on Mar 9, 2012 2:25:11 GMT -5
Considering the author, I'm not sure plain English would clear up much. But if you have any questions, ask. I'd be happy to answer them. Someone please tell me what HC is? TIA Also WIO, DOS, and I'm sure there's one more......
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Post by stryker on Mar 9, 2012 2:37:33 GMT -5
Playing Indy is pretty easy though. I get the sense that both sides are generally content to keep you out there. I mean, winning might be impossible or very hard once the roles are whittled down, but there's not a lot of complexity to playing and getting alot of influence on gameplay. Wait around and whack someone. By the end I was about 65% villager and 35% game mechanic. Which is fun. Indy is a ton of fun to play. It's normally very difficult to win as an Indy, though. You have to walk a tightrope of appearing pro-village in the game thread so as to not get lynched without appearing so pro-village that the BGs want to kill you. And you're right, the more it gets whittled down, the harder it is. Early the village is content to leave you out there because the sheer numbers make it unproductive to Indy hunt. But the fewer BGs that remain in the game, the more that gap narrows. Eventually, people go from, "Geco might be peens" to "Vote Greco. We need to get rid of peens now." I bet Scooby had a lot of fun with it. And nice game Scooby. You had me thinking you were GGRP. My only inkling that you were Indy was when I got lynched. Even if I said something, I'm pretty sure EG, JTG, VI et al wouldn't have taken my guess. Thanks, Bob, for giving me BG. If I were PJ I probably would have checked out on D1. Even though the BGs told me to stay away from the board so I wouldn't appear BG I learned a lot there. I fucked up the DBD runup, not knowing he would be lynched because of it, but I realized my error with that BG board access. And for the record, I got minimal coaching on my fake. I wasn't fed anything except the name and the "what PM would you get back" line.
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Post by scooby on Mar 9, 2012 6:49:38 GMT -5
I'd like to. I had a lot of fun, especially faking, even though it wasn't up to par of a veteran fake. I just don't know if this is for me yet. I stayed quiet in-game because I was a BG and didnt want to fuck anything up. But I also stayed quiet because I simply couldn't follow the logic. X-Player voted for Y-Player on day 2 = GG. Z-Player said "Blah" on day 4 = BG. I guess that comes with experience but I failed there and could never really follow. I signed up for the board, but I really can only play again next week. And I think I'd hate playing as a peej. I get very frustrated when you have a bunch of guys with only a few votes or when a bunch of guys don't vote. Those long days drove me nuts. They need speed wolf. I also think most of the vote tracking is bullshit. You could have possibly guessed I was Indy from my votes early. I was in on lynches because I wanted to keep things moving and I didn't care who died. But early, nobody should care. When BGs can communicate, it seems unlikely that they'll let any one guy have a pattern. I think the tracking is better for determining roles and mechanics like the Paul Swish stuff.
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Post by fatguy on Mar 9, 2012 7:50:15 GMT -5
Oh well. Wish I could have turned into worm's mason baby, but I guess the power doesn't work that way.
Still think the BGs have a shot, as long as VI lives to kill again.
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Post by fatguy on Mar 9, 2012 7:56:06 GMT -5
I hope there's more discussion about Worm and Acer. I think both of their claims could be viewed skeptically by someone that didn't know any better.
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Post by Matts on Mar 9, 2012 8:05:28 GMT -5
BGs inability to kill a ggrp is going to bite them in the ass. yep....all they did was killed pjs early on... rpers sometimes arent overrated imo... ;) Well, to be fair, the village didn't leave them many. How many got lynched? 3?
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Post by fatguy on Mar 9, 2012 8:07:43 GMT -5
yep....all they did was killed pjs early on... rpers sometimes arent overrated imo... ;) Well, to be fair, the village didn't leave them many. How many got lynched? 3? Just one I think but scoob/Peens killed a couple of them.
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Post by Matts on Mar 9, 2012 8:20:31 GMT -5
Someone please tell me what HC is? TIA Also WIO, DOS, and I'm sure there's one more...... HC = Holy Crap. A couple of variants of this. Best is when a BGRP posts something, thinking they were on their own team board, only to realize that they were on the game board. Sorta tough to happen while playing at FBGs because the gameboard and team board are different websites. But also used when someone says something that shows that they know more than a villager would. So, in the middle of the someone's runup, commenting that, "The BGs are really trying to get rid of Person X" when you should have no idea whether or not Person X is good or bad. There's all sorts of variants with this one. WIO = Work Itself Out. Generally, if not exclusively, used for claims. Who knows if the person is lying or not but the situation will take care of itself without us. Best example of this is someone claiming Vig when there's a Vig established in the game. Either they're telling the truth in which case, fine. Or they're lying and the real Vig will shoot them in which case, also fine. Pretty much any GGRP claim in the first couple of days is a WIO situation. Either the claim is legit, in which case the BGs will kill them. Or they're not legit and they get lynched 4-5 days later. Or it's unsure and there's a killing Indy who will take them out either way. But some WIO situations still get dealt with immediately if people feel convinced that the person is lying. WIFOM = Wine In Front Of Me. From the Princess Bride. "I clearly can't drink the wine in front of me." Used to denigrate any first-order logic of something happening but also implying you can't infer anything from second-order logic, either. DOS = Dick/Dong of Suspicion. It started out as FOS, Finger of Suspicion but (d)evolved. Basically, "I suspect that guy." WLATTOTMF = Well Look At The Timing Of That Mother Fucker. If someone is generally absent from the game/thread, but then all of a sudden shows up when right when they're being discussed and/or receiving votes. Implication being that they were ninja-following the game but not posting for some reason.
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Post by Matts on Mar 9, 2012 8:35:05 GMT -5
I signed up for the board, but I really can only play again next week. And I think I'd hate playing as a peej. I get very frustrated when you have a bunch of guys with only a few votes or when a bunch of guys don't vote. Those long days drove me nuts. They need speed wolf. I also think most of the vote tracking is bullshit. You could have possibly guessed I was Indy from my votes early. I was in on lynches because I wanted to keep things moving and I didn't care who died. But early, nobody should care. When BGs can communicate, it seems unlikely that they'll let any one guy have a pattern. I think the tracking is better for determining roles and mechanics like the Paul Swish stuff. There is SpeedWolf. Games get played with 7-10 people and last generally about a day. Vote-tracking is unreliable as a snapshot but very useful as a mosaic. In the cacophony of noise which is people's shtick and acting, how they vote is the only thing that really matters. And unless there's some extreme coordination going on, there tends to be normal patterns and distributions of where team-aligned votes go. It's not much help for uncovering an Indy who isn't voting with anyone, but for figuring out allegiances of teams, it's the best thing you can use (imo). Someone (culdeus maybe) worked out some Boolean-logic algorithm in the Se7en game here where he worked out that Sinn Fein was a couple of std dev's off of the charts on his voting history from random votes and it turned out that was because Sinn had been given everyone's role in advance. You don't see that kind of analysis very often, but the back-of-the-envelope stuff does work.
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Post by Matts on Mar 9, 2012 8:44:58 GMT -5
Well, to be fair, the village didn't leave them many. How many got lynched? 3? Just one I think but scoob/Peens killed a couple of them. Split the difference, two. icon & DBD.
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Post by canawit on Mar 9, 2012 9:21:56 GMT -5
I'd like to. I had a lot of fun, especially faking, even though it wasn't up to par of a veteran fake. I just don't know if this is for me yet. I stayed quiet in-game because I was a BG and didnt want to fuck anything up. But I also stayed quiet because I simply couldn't follow the logic. X-Player voted for Y-Player on day 2 = GG. Z-Player said "Blah" on day 4 = BG. I guess that comes with experience but I failed there and could never really follow. That's actually the easy part of the game because, frankly, it's tough to say one person is right and another one is wrong. These things are both common and subjective. The thing you have to remember is that two different people can read the same thing and react in completely different ways. Nigel reads fatguy's finger-pointing at EG and thinks EG is good because he thinks fatguy is bad. scoob looks at fatguy's finger-pointing at EG and thinks EG is bad - and he KNOWS fatguy is bad. Sometimes people, even vets, will read something into a post and EVERYONE else is like, "WTF? Where'd you get that?" You just never know what's going to set somebody off or cause a reaction. And sometimes they're spot on. Sometimes they're spot on for all the wrong reasons. I can look at Matthias and say, "Matts is a BG because he's LFing. When he's a GG he posts a ton and he's not doing that." Maybe I'm right. But maybe Matts just has a sick kid and can't get to a computer that day. The trick is to make it fun regardless. I don't even play much anymore, but I enjoy the banter because for the most part it's hanging out with a lot of the people who made me like the FFA in the first place... without all the bags of douche who make the place intolerable. My $.02.
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Post by fatguy on Mar 9, 2012 9:25:15 GMT -5
I predict Acer gets lynched today.
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Post by canawit on Mar 9, 2012 9:28:14 GMT -5
I'd like to. I had a lot of fun, especially faking, even though it wasn't up to par of a veteran fake. I just don't know if this is for me yet. I stayed quiet in-game because I was a BG and didnt want to fuck anything up. But I also stayed quiet because I simply couldn't follow the logic. X-Player voted for Y-Player on day 2 = GG. Z-Player said "Blah" on day 4 = BG. I guess that comes with experience but I failed there and could never really follow. I signed up for the board, but I really can only play again next week. And I think I'd hate playing as a peej. I get very frustrated when you have a bunch of guys with only a few votes or when a bunch of guys don't vote. Those long days drove me nuts. They need speed wolf. I also think most of the vote tracking is bullshit. You could have possibly guessed I was Indy from my votes early. I was in on lynches because I wanted to keep things moving and I didn't care who died. But early, nobody should care. When BGs can communicate, it seems unlikely that they'll let any one guy have a pattern. I think the tracking is better for determining roles and mechanics like the Paul Swish stuff. It has its uses. A good BG team - and this one did pretty well - can make it nearly impossible to use effectively. Or, at the very least, very difficult. A bad BG team can shoot themselves in the foot and lose to vote analysis and not much more. Plus, some people are better at it than others. For my money, I'll take worm's reads of players over vote analysis any day. But most of us simply aren't that good at reading players.
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Post by canawit on Mar 9, 2012 9:30:20 GMT -5
Shit. I forgot to randomize the cat and send him out for his last trip.
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Post by scooby on Mar 9, 2012 9:33:19 GMT -5
I'd like to. I had a lot of fun, especially faking, even though it wasn't up to par of a veteran fake. I just don't know if this is for me yet. I stayed quiet in-game because I was a BG and didnt want to fuck anything up. But I also stayed quiet because I simply couldn't follow the logic. X-Player voted for Y-Player on day 2 = GG. Z-Player said "Blah" on day 4 = BG. I guess that comes with experience but I failed there and could never really follow. That's actually the easy part of the game because, frankly, it's tough to say one person is right and another one is wrong. These things are both common and subjective. The thing you have to remember is that two different people can read the same thing and react in completely different ways. Nigel reads fatguy's finger-pointing at EG and thinks EG is good because he thinks fatguy is bad. scoob looks at fatguy's finger-pointing at EG and thinks EG is bad - and he KNOWS fatguy is bad. Sometimes people, even vets, will read something into a post and EVERYONE else is like, "WTF? Where'd you get that?" You just never know what's going to set somebody off or cause a reaction. And sometimes they're spot on. Sometimes they're spot on for all the wrong reasons. I can look at Matthias and say, "Matts is a BG because he's LFing. When he's a GG he posts a ton and he's not doing that." Maybe I'm right. But maybe Matts just has a sick kid and can't get to a computer that day. The trick is to make it fun regardless. I don't even play much anymore, but I enjoy the banter because for the most part it's hanging out with a lot of the people who made me like the FFA in the first place... without all the bags of douche who make the place intolerable. My $.02. I actually enjoy trying to figure out the game mechanics more than the good guy bad guy stuff. My guess is that the mechanics probably determine this stuff way, way more than reads. Once you get a block of confirms, or can figure out a role by figuring out the game mechanics, then you can probably decipher a few team vote patterns. The problem with vote reads is that the signal to noise ratio is off the charts. Take the Paul Swish situation. His voting history is significant if you know what to look for. His first vote every even day matters. But because he doesn't need to even stay on that lynch I don't see any way that a player could discern that from logging. Nobody is posting more tracking than the TFC/gaspumper. Which is one reason I was about 90% certain he was bad. When you have a highly focused conversation about one or two guys and this guy comes in wanting to start looking at everyone fresh, that just screams distraction to me.
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